Julian: My name is Julian Bond and I'm a [former] senior fellow at Manchester Business School. I'm involved in both the Nye Bevan and Elizabeth Garrett Anderson programmes and the session we're going to do today is a coaching technique called "meta-mirror." Julian (in session): Hi, I'm Julian. Genrich (in session): Hi, I'm Genrich. Julian (in session): This morning what we're going to do is a tool called meta-mirroring Julian (in interview): Meta-mirroring enables you to prepare yourself to have a difficult conversation. I think in the NHS, and other industries, we rush into conversations without really thinking about ourselves, the other person, or the outcomes we need. By using a tool like meta-mirroring, what you do is think about yourself; put yourself in the other person's shoes; and think about an outcome that you can both agree on and work with. It's not a difficult tool, it may look complicated, but there are just four main steps in it that anyone could do. Julian (in session): So what we're going to do is a four-step process... Julian (in interview): The first step is to sit in one of the chairs and be yourself; to pretend that the other person is sitting opposite you; and to have that conversation with an empty chair. I know it sounds a bit strange but it does work. Julian (in session): Who is the person we're going to talk with this morning? Genrich (in session): We're going to talk to Melissa. Julian (in interview): You have the conversation, which helps you get clarity around what the issues really are. Julian (in session): You've got Melissa now sitting in front of you, do you want to say how you're feeling? Genrich (in session): I'm feeling frustrated. Julian (in session): Do you want to have the conversation with Melissa, imagine she's sitting there. Genrich (in session): Hi Melissa. I need to speak about your time-keeping and your miscommunication. We are now in a situation where we are approaching the deadline and you told me your work would be done by the end of yesterday. There's no response and it's quite unacceptable. Julian (in session): So you've got feelings of frustrating. Are there feelings of anger there? Genrich (in session): Yes, frustration and anger. Julian (in session): Okay, do you want to stand up? Julian (in interview): After you've been in your position you get up, you shake your body out, get rid of some of the tension and you sit in the other chair. By sitting in the other chair you assume the mantle of the second person and response to that first person's comments and questions; you think about how that person would respond to the issues raised. Julian (in session): So how are you feeling as Melissa now, what would you say in response? Genrich (in session): All I can say is: I was staying really late yesterday and I tried to fix it. Obviously, it didn't work. It seems like I will need the support because it's factors I can't fix on my own. I definitely will keep sending you emails and keep you up to date, I'm sorry. Julian (in session): So stand up and just shake it out again. Julian (in interview): You again stand up and leave the two chairs empty. You take a view to one side and you try to get a different perspective – one where you actually look at the two people, see how their relationship is; see what is effecting it; see what is good in it; see what could change in it. It gives you a different perspective and gives you a more objective perspective. Julian (in session): What are you seeing from the two people? Genrich (in session): They both feel frustrated; they both feel angry. From Melissa's view she is angry at herself; from Genrich's perspective he feels angry with her and he doesn't understand why she can't at least tell him. Julian (in session): I'm getting the sense that there's a lot of emotion in there that could be potentially very explosive and cause problems. Julian (in interview): The fourth position is one to try and get a different perspective on the relationship and the conversations. What can happen is you don't see anything different, but often there is one or two things that you do see differently that then add to that rich picture, enabling you to make a better outcome at the end of the conversation. Genrich (in session): From this angle I feel a bit more detached. It's more detached than I was there. From this point of view, what I feel happened here was there was certainly miscommunication happening, but that's a more global issue which needs to be sorted for the sake of the whole project. Julian (in session): So you've had a very close up view and now you step beck, it's about how it could affect the bigger project and how it fits into the grand scheme of things. Julian (in interview): The final position is back to position one, where you sit back in the original seat where you are you. The idea is then to work through the conversations you had, the different perspectives you gained, to enable you to tone and hone your conversation so that you can have a proper appropriate conversation with that person. Julian (in session): What are the key things that, when you have this conversation, what are the most important things you want to get over to Melissa? Genrich (in session): This time, I would try to be less emotional. I would try to be more factual and as clear as possible because at this point I don't need to know all the details. I need to know if Melissa needs some help from me, some support, so I can get more people to help her. The whole thing should be more constructive instead of emotional. Julian (in interview): That position is where you decide what action you'll take, when you'll take it, and you'll make sure that you have the space in your diary to have that conversation. It's about planning space in response to the other positions. Genrich (in interview): That was really helpful. I think, on some level, it's something I try to do myself, but the exercise was more structured. It's not important to lose yourself in being involved and consumed by this moment or local issue you have. In that emotional mood, you want to transfer those emotions and you want to say "I'm really frustrated, that's because of you and you have done wrong." When you're detached, you're asking the right questions, and you're saying: "okay, let's forget what happened and see what we can do." Julian (in interview): I think the meta-mirror technique is very effective. It doesn't take a long time, it's quite quick, but it also prepares you to have a difficult conversation. I think we often run into conversations without thinking about ourselves, the other person or the outcomes we're after. By doing a quick tool like this, it gives you the opportunity to get the best out of yourself; the best out of the person you're working with; and also come up with a workable solution that you can both agree on. I think it's quite a quick tool but a very powerful tool to enable you to improve yourself. Genrich (in interview): I'm definitely going to have those difficult conversations but from the experience I've had today I will try to do it from that different perspective of being able, less emotional, more detached, keeping my focus on the bigger picture and to find a constructive way of working with the person you keep getting those issues with. The only way I think you can do that effectively is when you get detached from the emotions, when you get more factual, less personal. You can explain your situation, your struggles and maybe be able to listen to that person's struggles.